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 March 23 NIGHT MERGE

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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 1:42 am

Well, however the point system turns out, don't forget you can scale the points. Pop 'er up to 30 points a game for night:

Real Cap Mags (10-30) have a value of '1'
Low Cap Mags (30-80)have a value of '2'
Mid Cap Mags (90-150) have a value of '5'
High Cap Mags (150-400) have a value of '15'
Super High Cap (400-700) have a value of '20'
Box Mags (1000)-Must be on a support weapon value of '20'

gives you for 30 points:

realcaps-840 rnds (28 rnds per mag x30)
lowcaps-1020 rnds (68 rnds per mag x15)
midcaps-720 rnds (120 rnds per mag x6)
hicaps-800 rnds (400 rnds per mag x2)

Mix and match your mags and that is a ton of ammo there per game. Between two games, you will have at LEAST 1600 rnds to play with. If you are using that much, even at night, then you are not using proper firing techniques as a squad (rotating fire, burst fire, etc). Mind you, I really doubt anyone with be that effective in semi, so if the 30 points for the first game is not enough, then pop er' up to 40.

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:00 am

just to simplify to whole thing we will use these rules...

High caps-semi only
low and mids-full auto
box mags-full auto.

I just want to make this game easy until we have good references with the game specific rules...I wil copy this to the first page.
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:02 am

are the box mags for support only?
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:12 am

They will probably end up filling that role...12 people signed up as coming, tiny area, darkness, TONNES OF BBs = a real good time and allot of face shots.

Considering everything will pretty much be blind fire (except the NVG) I am thinking of limiting FPS to 330 and under (pistols doesn't matter)
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:18 am

if you limit fps now you need to tell the guys coming for the mission milsim because you already told them different. It also means i will not be there as that makes all my guns HOT. so i would like to know. This ammo rules also seems to be a huge disadvatage to us with highcaps. if I have a box mag it is allowed but a highcap is semi only. this does not seem to fair.
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:21 am

I would say if you change anything like fps rules give guys atleast a month to two months notice, gives them a chance to get their guns to a doc and get a different spring put in. Seems senseless to change the rule 10 days before the event...
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:23 am

true to that

and give me some time to glue a box together for my box mag Smile

side note: are we allowed to reload in the field?


Last edited by on Sun 11 Mar 2007, 2:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:26 am

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=35250

Box-mag how-to, get the whole team equiped with them! Twisted Evil

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:30 am

What I said seems to be a good idea for the ammo rules and such. We can try to implament these rules, but remember to do it slowly (ie. how long has it taken us to do the barrel bag rule?). Try to encourage the use of non-winding mags (hi-caps) but don't handicap them, especially 10 days before. You gotta give guys time to get new gear needed.

If your going to do something about the hi-cap users just make it so they can only reload once or cannot reload in the field? Are you catching my drift yet?
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:40 am

I just feal like changing everyrthing after that boot camp. No ammo limits and the regular FPS rules...
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:44 am

Very understandable, but its just like I learned in Wilderness First Responders this week... we need to slow down...

Side note, I was looking at the boot camp days out here (Sask -SSM and PDW clubs), and by the looks of things I might be able to make one!


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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:45 am

cool

dave ill call you monday afternoon or evening
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 3:28 am

beach_boy wrote:
Very understandable, but its just like I learned in Wilderness First Responders this week... we need to slow down...

Side note, I was looking at the boot camp days out here (Sask -SSM and PDW clubs), and by the looks of things I might be able to make one!

Slow down? Just earlier everyone was roaring for rules and change, a change from run-and-gun. This club is nearly 2 years old now, you think that we would be making a move towards MilSim and Ops. And for those to work, you need infrastructure and rules to limit such things as hi-caps, excessive shooting, and other un-realistic activities. These rules are put in place, to my understanding, for a MilSim, not our normal games. The 4 games are to let people know that if the game will be gun-and-gun, or it will be training, or it will be a specialized game. New players will enjoy the open games until they get the urning for milsim. Older players may skip the open games and work on Op games. I don't get why these rules are always having to be a blanket for everything.

I guess it will come down to individual squads and teams to make the difference. A group of players that will only play with low-caps, focus on MilSim movement and teamwork, and if they get their butt's kicked by hi-caps and box-mags, so be it, they are playing a different game.

Look at FSJ and what they are doing, sure I don't agree 100% with their methods, but they are focusing on working as a squad, gearing similar with OD (I don't know why, different I guess), and arming themselves with similar weapon platforms.

MIA is gearing up similar and it makes them have some team cohesion.

I am not saying that we all need to arm/gear similar to each other, but it would be nice to move away from randomness to something a bit more serious. Yeah, people might get pissed that their hi-caps are not good anymore, or they have to get something other than street clothes, but if we set the example to new players, they will follow suit.

I delibrately set-up (or left) my guns to shoot at three different FPS. Each is geared towards the different plays, one that is low FPS insane ROF (faster semi) for CQB, one that is mid-FPS and high ROF for field (cut through bushes), and one that is high FPS and low-ROF for large games where I won't have to get in close. If you don't want to invest in three different gun, get different springs for each FPS, regular mechbox maintenance is good anyways and it is not very difficult to learn.

I have a generic load-out that is adaptable for most games, be it for either side(s). If a MilSim (not regular game) requires else wise, I will try my best to borrow or change my gear if I wish to attend.

It seems silly to "slow down" and keep the club at a low bar. Most new players are trying hard to gear and gun up so they can enjoy member privileges, but if they get there and all there is available is more run and gun, then yeah, why bother.

Horton and a few others just went through Bootcamp. I don't understand why people are not enthusiastic for moving towards more realism. When I went through boot with Nic, and he showed proper squad movement, target acquisition, and raiding tactics, I was really thinking that it would carry on. Don't get me wrong, I love run-and-gun sometimes, but I have played it to death. I would really like to get back into situations even like the blackhawk down missions where we focused on proper squad movement towards the site, forced movement down the road, and tactical engagement at the site. That was possible because people followed the rules and place and made the game enjoyable. If we don't have rules for MilSim, we don't have a MilSim, just a very long game of run-and-gun...

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 1:25 pm

Ah I think you missed what I meant by 'slow down' there Doug. What I meant was we can't just make new rules right away apply them to a game scenario especially if we do less than 2 weeks before a big game.

We gotta do it slowly giving people time to get their crap together. It has taken at least 4 months for everyone to adhere to the barrel bag rule (Yuurei).

Go ahead and make rules for the sim, but when we have guys coming up from the lower mainland and from up North and we spring new rules a week and a bit before it happens... what do you think is going to happen?

So that is what I meant by slowing down, we can't just throw new rules out there, we have to give noobs and old players time to adjust to them. Now granted it could only take a month before we put write everything in stone and implement them but at least in a month we have given sometime for people to adjust,
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:03 pm

i agree. I have 4 highcaps but only 4 reals and 2 standards.we could impliment them now but we need some time to replace some mags, so we could put a higher point count and slowly adjust it as time goes. that would give us all some time to adjust and get some more mags. that would give us a solid rule on the points system for the ammo but tha accual points would be adjusted for the intended game. I do like the rule on no reloding highcaps in the field but untill our mag count goes up not reloading others won't work yet. so for starters to start conserving ammo we could implment the points and or put a total bb count per game. we could also charge a little more for ammo count games and have them pre counted in ziplocks for distribution. then we could load them in whatever mags we have. you could penalize highcaps by giving a :)SLIGHTLY:) lower count
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:05 pm

beach_boy wrote:
Ah I think you missed what I meant by 'slow down' there Doug. What I meant was we can't just make new rules right away apply them to a game scenario especially if we do less than 2 weeks before a big game.

We gotta do it slowly giving people time to get their crap together. It has taken at least 4 months for everyone to adhere to the barrel bag rule (Yuurei).

Go ahead and make rules for the sim, but when we have guys coming up from the lower mainland and from up North and we spring new rules a week and a bit before it happens... what do you think is going to happen?

So that is what I meant by slowing down, we can't just throw new rules out there, we have to give noobs and old players time to adjust to them. Now granted it could only take a month before we put write everything in stone and implement them but at least in a month we have given sometime for people to adjust,

Oh, sorry, I misinterpreted that, my bad there Sad . Yeah, you are right about springing new rules for already in-place games, that is a no-no. The fact that it took 4 months to get barrel condoms in place (has it really been 4 months? geez) is a testiment to how hard it is to get club stuff going.

I REALLY badly want to see some actual milsim taking place in PG. We totally have the capabilities to do so. We now have a field, a dedicated player base, and people acquiring skills left and right. He have people who will to donate time and materials to create something that will be totally worth every bit we put into it. Look how fast we were able to get the Boneyard changed around, brought stuff in, built sand-bag bunkers and fixed his bridge, all within a few months.

We can loot materials from Busters, get wood from Zues, donate time and tools to dig and cut a field. And once we have a field, then we can work towards holding events that are beautifully complex and fun.

Unfortunately at this time, the forum is all I have, I am unable to get into PG right now to do anything. Setting up underlying infrastructure for MilSim games is fun and great research. When spring comes and I have time off, yeah, I will head down and take vacation time to work on the field, I could not think of anything more fun to do Smile

Sorry if I come across strong here, I love NIA and what we have done with it, I really want to see it become the best it can. Though we all may not agree over certain principles, we still are able to keep everything together and have a great club, and that is something rare (geez, look at ASC).

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:07 pm

ZEUS wrote:
i agree. I have 4 highcaps but only 4 reals and 2 standards.we could impliment them now but we need some time to replace some mags, so we could put a higher point count and slowly adjust it as time goes. that would give us all some time to adjust and get some more mags.

KA Mags!!!! $14 a piece for a full metal low-cap!!! WOooOOOOO!!! Get in and do an order! They come in multiple colors and/or Vn size!

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:26 pm



yup your right but pre order? wont even be ordered in time for this game.
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 2:54 pm

ZEUS wrote:


yup your right but pre order? wont even be ordered in time for this game.

Meh, one game, we got lots more coming. Plus it is a night game, I think everyone is going to be box-mag'ing if possible. I would hate to drop a mag and loose it, in the night game, though I hate to say it, less mags=better.

Still, $14 a mag, that is cheaper than anywhere else I can find. That is almost Star mag cheapness.

Of course, your point about labelling mags is a great idea. I think that everyone should start doing such to avoid any confusion, especially if everyone jumps on the KA bandwagon.

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 9:09 pm

I have engraved all mine and my wifes already. just with our small group we were having some probs. Some of them would not take care of there stuff or just trade out a broke one at the next game and nobody ever knows. even if not on purpose all you have is a piece count no idea if they are yours or not.
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 10:54 pm

ZEUS wrote:
I have engraved all mine and my wifes already. just with our small group we were having some probs. Some of them would not take care of there stuff or just trade out a broke one at the next game and nobody ever knows. even if not on purpose all you have is a piece count no idea if they are yours or not.

I am sure it is by accident but that is not cool. I have used a permanent marker on mine but engraving is a MUCH better idea. Having my one silver mag taken during a game with people who only ever played once with us, I find it frustrating that things like this happen. Even more so when people are not respecting what is not theirs. Hopefully as squads and teams develop, so will the respect for each others gear.

Out of question, where on the mag did you engrave, how permanent is it, and what tool did you use (and if possible is it portable to games (charge for use)?

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 11:04 pm

I engraved with an electric engraver. I gues with a file you could remove it but it would show. I engraved my M16 mag on the bottom front curve. On mine I engraved a lighting bolt and on my wifes a "P" so they are personalized but not call signs that could not be sold at a later date. next weekend I can see if my inverter will runn it but for about 6 bucks at princess auto you could just get your own. They arnt the neatest but im sure you could practice and get it better.
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptySun 11 Mar 2007, 11:15 pm

ZEUS wrote:
I engraved with an electric engraver. I gues with a file you could remove it but it would show. I engraved my M16 mag on the bottom front curve. On mine I engraved a lighting bolt and on my wifes a "P" so they are personalized but not call signs that could not be sold at a later date. next weekend I can see if my inverter will runn it but for about 6 bucks at princess auto you could just get your own. They arnt the neatest but im sure you could practice and get it better.

Thanks, I will drop by Princess Auto next time I am through in PG. Heck for $6, could just get one for the club and do everyones mags. That is a good idea to do a symbol over a name for re-sale purposes, not that I will ever toss my guns, but I should start selling some of my un-used mags.

Mind you, I still have a number of mags that I doubt anyone else has (I don't think I ever posted this one here, gosh that is a fugly mag):
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptyMon 12 Mar 2007, 12:23 pm

Doug you had a silver mag stolen? Who were the guys that only came once? Does the bannination hammer need to come down?

Thanks for the kick in the butt Beachy, a little worked up from the boot camp. MUST CHANGE EVERYTHING!!! ULTRA HARDCORE. What got me was how effective we were when we followed to proper strategies. Amazing communication, and after a bit everyone just slid right into their roles and yelling commands wasn't necessary. blah blah blah everyone needs to catch a boot camp.
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PostSubject: Re: March 23 NIGHT MERGE   March 23 NIGHT MERGE - Page 3 EmptyMon 12 Mar 2007, 12:51 pm

Hortons Heros wrote:
Doug you had a silver mag stolen? Who were the guys that only came once? Does the bannination hammer need to come down?

Yeah, I grumbled about it the week after but I figured it had to be lost. This was that game up at Pred (the day where we did not have to pay). Remember the kids who rented, we didn't know them, ex-painball, borrowed some guns and I lent the hi-cap out. Well, I never saw it again and it is not in my gear... Maybe I left it out on the table out there but I was pretty happy about that mag considering I just got it (That last redwolf order in the fall). Maybe it got dropped, maybe someone kept it, but considering it is one of the few in Canada, if you ever see someone at a local game with a silver color hi-cap, then yeah, chances are that is mine...

-Doug
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N.I.A.- Northern Interior Airsoft :: Bomb Disposal :: The Brief Pit-
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